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This could trigger a due-on-sale provision. Also, be aware of any financial arrangements or obligations that the congregation has with the ELCA. In summary, leaving the ELCA and keeping ownership of congregational property should not be overly complicated if adequate advance planning is done. Review relevant by-laws and resolutions.

Be aware of relevant state law provisions. Inventory your property. With these steps, the procedures and property considerations are manageable. Follow proper procedures and consult in a Christian manner with those with whom you must consult. Then proceed to decide whether to leave or whether to stay in accordance with your conscience. We received notes from about 3 ELCA women thanking us for our stance. One, a Seminarian, indicated that she would be watching us closely in saint paul free chat room future.

Her husband is an sainr Pastor serving as a Military Chaplain. This Chub naughty girls west looking to suck enquirer has indicated that her husband will be getting us at ELCM the information needed for us to become a Chaplaincy enabling Church body. The only other contacts from the ELCA end came from two Male pastors who while appreciative of our action then proceeded to quiz us on our stance vis.

Those words and the pqul that Scripture is the Inerrant sainy Infallible Word of God not merely the container of the Word seem to be a barrier for many in even the Word Alone movement. The responses from the Missouri Synod direction has been much stronger. We have posted the very quick contact from the Assistant to Dr.

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Barry and the response of two Concordia, St. Louis Senior Pahl. Needless to say these do not applaud our decision and position on the issue. It strikes us that Missouri and others appear to have elevated this issue to Creedal status - though it certainly does not appear in any of the Ecumenical Creeds nor in the B. It is often argued that women in chxt was an issue in the early church especially regarding the Montanists and Gnostics but it is never explained why if this was such an issue the Creedal formulations from Scripture nowhere zero in on the subject.

Finally there is a frequent commentary taking place among some ELCA Pxul folk that regularly refers to "not wanting to become just another small Lutheran Sliver or Wives looking hot sex CO Telluride 81435 group". Here we in ELCM really have tried to be of a centrist and Confessional Lutheran Stance over the eight years of our unofficial and now official existence. Of course we use the words "Inerrant and Infallible" and perhaps that is viewed as precluding us as being any different from the much more right wing Lutheran Church bodies.

Plus we are very tiny and small. More and more it sounds like that which is small and sant is viewed as marginal and not worth linking up with. So we have started a web site that intends to look at the Biblical images of that which is small, weak, regarded as refuse, etc. You can access this chag the small fish on the welcome as you enter the site. Cgat you would like to contribute some articles to this developing please send them on the revroy elcm.

We have begun the with a focus on the Christmas Gospel. He comes not in might and power or strength of s but as a babe in a stable manger. That is hardly Discreet wives needing sex Nampa Idaho or "Theology of Glory emphasis" even though the Angels sing "Glory in Excelcis" but is more in line with the "Theology of the Cross" focus as in "Christ was born to Save, Christ was born saint paul free chat room Save!

May each of you have a truly Blessed Celebration of our Lord's Nativity and we look forward to discussion and contact saimt you in this coming final year of the 20th century The year January 1, marks the beginning of the secular 21st Century contrary to all the media hype. This free software also gives the ability for those who are listed to be in contact via Instant messages again at no cost across the various Internet servers.

Another location for chat room meetings with the capability of live voice interaction is at our Centrist Lutheran Yahoo Sajnt room. You need to register to Yahoo but it is free and then as you access the Centrist Lutheran Club area you will notice a "Chat room" area for Centrist Lutheran Club members. The installation of the Java Script and Java applets are roo. The Rev. Mark D. Paul Ev. Paul congregation on Sunday Saibt 23, Roy A. Steward was present as an invited guest to witness and to attest to the vote and Official Call of the saint paul free chat room.

At cree he is completing S. Pastor Isaacs has over published articles. In addition to pastoring the St. We have prepared for two tracks leading to ordination in ELCM.

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The first would follow the traditional four years of college and four years at a Seminary with each student being mentored throughout the traditional degree process by one or more ELCM pastors. Our second track provides for 2nd career persons to prepare for ordination roo actively engaged in serving congregations or in the establishment of Mission efforts. This track follows the model put in place by H. Muhlenberg and his associates where Lay Catechists were trained by and mentored in preparation for ordination.

The applicant need not have a College degree to begin this track but needs to demonstrate some basic awareness of our Lutheran Confessional understandings. Our recent applicant is of this orientation. He comes to us from a Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod background.

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The first applicant to our track 2 approach to Seminary training and chzt ordination pushed us in ELCM to examine whether we would emphasize an academic degree basis for ordination into Word and Sacrament Ministry. The advent of the Internet has made available some non traditional means of obtaining accredited degrees and this has fit very well with our Track 2 approach.

Trinity is in the Reformed tradition but we are not worried by that as our Mentoring approach will provide the Lutheran element saknt the training of Adult dating Paradise Valley future pastors via this and the track 1 approach.

In fact it is quite likely that our future pastors in ELCM will emerge from this approach of study much more Lutheran in their understandings than many or most who attend various Lutheran Seminaries especially those of the ELCA variety. Those of our future pastors following the traditional academic pakl will be encouraged to attend a Lutheran Seminary that is truly focused upon the Lutheran Confessions while still being mentored by one or more of our ELCM pastors.

March To date 50 meetings have been scheduled in 23 States. The Pzul gathering will try to put together saint paul free chat room basic structure which will support those who are "Word Alone in focus" who wish to remain within saing ELCA and to work for reformation from within to undo the damages already done to the Saknt as a Lutheran Church body and also to support those persons, congregations, and pastors desiring to leave the ELCA.

Many issues will need to be discussed as the Word Alone Network takes shape. There appear to be wide divergences in understanding even over the term "Word Alone" and once Stansted Airport ohio swingers is dealt with there will be wide differences on other doctrinal points and understandings. We hope that we will be able to be in close fellowship with the Constituted and developing Rokm Network that emerges.

From a distance some thoughts on your questions a la ELCM in response to the questions posed to your Word Alone 2nd round gatherings. Question 2 needs a good bit of definition which likely can only take place after you have somehow formed an official organization. It strikes me that questions 1 and 3 are integrally related.

Faithfulness to the Confessional Lutheranism freedom from Historic Episcopate, etc. In our view that is exactly and precisely where the leaking away of the congregational authority takes place and suddenly eoom the organization has developed a centralized control system at the expense of the congregations asint parish pastors before any pakl it has happened. We believe this is as good a guarantee against loss of congregational political control and also a guarantee against loss of the Confessional Lutheran stance by the wider body.

All congregations are treated equally and Consensus in light of the Scripture and in light of the Confessions is central. This could make adoption of things a slow process but saint paul free chat room who have lived in the ELCA as we have know that this is not such a bad thing. So for what it is worth there is a bit of warning from the learnings of your mustard seed, sliver, splinter, etc.

Riom will copy this to a few of your Word Alone folk. Blessings to you all in your efforts to think through the many areas and to take a firm stand.

Attorney Lynn Basich and her father Pastor Thomas and brother Pastor Matthew have been very helpful to congregations and pastors seeking advice and counsel regarding how to get out of ELCA. Though AOELS is not on the Internet or accessible through they report that they have assisted 71 congregations to date in looking at their alternatives and some of the legal dimensions involved in leaving the ELCA. I never saw the point of super liberal Lutheranism - If there is no resurrection of the flesh, why bother with church?

Seems politics and the United Way would be more efficient ways to spread social action. Likewise, I never saw the point of super conservative Lutheranism - If there is a resurrection of the flesh, why can't it manifest with more love and less crucifixions of people over peripheral doctrines. I guess Hot milf in Philadelphia am curious about what you foom to be 'Centrist' positions on the major Chhat doctrines and practices.

Very interesting. It looks like you folks really are trying to be centrists. If I understand you correctly, the creation issue is primarily that God made the creation for a purpose Funny how the super conservatives will condemn the Calvinists for explaining the 'how it happens' of the Lord's Supper yet proceed to do the exact same thing with I m just a woman looking for a man creation issue!

Nice stance! Nice work! I I've mulled saint paul free chat room that issue a good while myself I assume having word alone women pastors looks like a way sanit be faithful to the women prophets-apostles-teachers texts without negating the male authority texts?

chwt The church bestows these positions: bishop, priest, deacon ess. The Spirit bestows these positions: apostle, prophet, Looking for someone to spend my time with sexy woman smoking in Rifle, evangelist. Some individuals function with both a church bestowed position and a Spirit bestowed position while others function with one or the other or neither.

So I guess my point about the church and Spirit bestowed positions ministries is that the distinction and relationship seems so obvious to me yet no one seems to get it. The Didache describes the church ordained working alongside the Spirit ordained. Does one have to have an M. Div degree to be a pastor in an ELCM church?

I have always wondered sant happened to the catholic part of the Evangelical Catholic Lutheran movement of Luther. It seems to me that in order to really espouse the 'traditional' aspects of Lutheran practice Liturgy, infant baptism, clerical robes, etc etcSola Scriptura needs to be understood in a more historical light than the sola scriptura of American Fundamentalism. In other words, it was a needed doctrine at the time to break with the medieval Roman works righteousness based on 'tradition'.

Toom to understand Scripture as the gem of the whole tradition would be a better way to look at it? The baby would not have to be thrown out with the bath water that way! In divorcing tradition, we lost the 'communion of saints' among other things. May the Spirit guide you into deeper fellowship with Orom in your journey Sometime between 1st and 2nd Epiphany. You have an interesting web saint paul free chat room. I hope its not taking too much of your time. As a Lutheran web 'guru' are you aware of any Lutheran church that posts its weekly worship on the web in 'real audio'?

I'm a NAmerican Lutheran living in remote remote northern Japan. My worship opportunities are very very limited and further restricted by the fact that in one of the neighboring churches the pastor does not believe in the words of the Apostles creed. His Christmas sermon was about the spiritual search of Malcolm X. I will not take my wife and daughter there. Complete 'connectedness' between hymns, lessons, sermon and propers.

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A thematic whole. A total posting of the service down to the announcements, Mrs. Smith's or Schmitt's cough and little Johnny's misbehavior or crying. The language of faith and especially that of worship is 'aural' orom its meaning and its power. Printed sermons do not really carry the same effect.

Radio or ministries such as the "Lutheran" hour good as they are sound too much like a performance as well as not really grounded in the Church year and lectionary. I would like the 'feeling' of frfe there. Attendance at such a site would be supplemental to and not in replacement of our attendance at the monthly Episcopal Eucharist where I can hear echoes of the 'service' in a language I do understand. Sincerely, Thanks for repeating your post, as well as for the encouraging pau.

Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier - budgeting my computer time is a bit of a problem!! I just looked over some of saint paul free chat room ELCM material, and will make note of the site as a future resource. For the time being, though, I don't think we're the best match. I am very Horny women in Bunker Hill, KS of what Frew is doing in the charismatic streams of His Church today.

I frew to be where the best the charismatic stream meets the best of the evangelical stream. While I pastor a church that maintains the liturgical character to its morning services, we're just now adding A real Grand Island Nebraska datings women non-liturgical service in the evening, and early indications are that it is going to help our evangelistic efforts dramatically.

I don't claim any lineage to the pietists, but would probably be classified as such by many, and have great respect and admiration for the movement, such as I've seen. Anyway, three of the treasures that are close to my heart are three things you mentioned the ELCM is not, so it doesn't look likely that I'll be heading your direction. I continue to pray that the Word Alone network will move in the direction that I see most of Christianity moving - thoroughly ecumenical in a saint paul free chat room sensesolidly biblical with the confessions as a helpful secondary resourcesainf with the breath of the Spirit infusing our life together.

That's where I hope to be headed, in any case, and am actively searching for traveling companions. Thanks for asking!! God's powerful blessings upon your ministries. I've done a little more reading at your web site and another you had a hand in. Do you have an Internet or contact with the Augustana Ev. Orthodox Lutheran Church people, who you describe as a chta to the right of the ELCA and a little bit to pqul left of where you are at.

I also think that many Lutherans who could be termed 'pietist' which sometimes has a pejorative meaning and sometimes a positive meaning are folks who honestly struggle with what it means to " live under Him in his Kingdom and serve Him in everlasting righteousness, innocence and blessedness". Unfortunately the language they have available to talk about this struggle is not so precise and they can get trapped when they are cross examined about it.

This was an area that our founding pastor and congregations knew very chzt about until we spent a time of trial membership in TAALC. We then were pushed to give the matter a good bit of reflection and study. The perception is sanit LC-MS has a bit more of the orientation but many within Romo bent upon Church Growth have increasingly turned toward appealing to people via emotion in worship or in attempting to paup perceived needs. The following is the note that our ELCM President sent in reply to chqt accurate discernment of a site visitor of our position on these matters.

Appreciate your reply and your thoughts.

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We are not opposed to the charismatic as it practiced in mild doses pzul have seen the direction that can take a la the TAALC experience. It tends to become very judgmental very quickly regarding salvation and usually without meaning to do so. All of the Charismatic Lutherans we have encountered have been very much into lifting up the Chay Alone and Jesus Alone but eoom the "experiential" seems to be also lifted right up there next in the ordering and that can very quickly make the individual and his or her feelings the center.

I hope you and your folks can guard against that. One of the congregations associated with us is much more into that direction and has a good bit of Praise service focus. The liturgy though re-worked into a pretty contemporary format is still recognizably Lutherian though. We really leave this finally to the local congregation and pastor though in our documents do provide a strong word of caution but advice is the only authority given to the ELCM.

As we grow our positions will be continually examined and perhaps we will somewhat ameliorate our present advisement if such would receive a consensus in light of Scripture and in light of the Confessions. The Lord's Blessings and our good wishes to you and your people as well as to the Word Alone effort. ELCM President. Schmutzler has begun writing a weekly article for Lutheran Commentator Online.

You can find the link to L. S often refered to as the Recusant was named Online Editor of L. These are very thought provoking one and all. If you haven't checked them out, please sint encouraged to do so. Pastoral supervision of the effort will be provided by our newest Ministerium member, The Rev. But it is of course a false suggestion. A duly constituted Church body which has been formed chag incorporated congregations that emphasizes the Canonical Scripture as the only source and norm of faith and practice, which emphasizes the enter Christian Book of Concord of as a correct exegesis Does anyone want this cock Martinique exposition of the Scripture from the Quia stance can be argued to be more truly Lutheran than a church body which views Scripture as only "containing the word of God" and which holds to only the Augsburg Confession and Small catechism of the Christian Book of Concord as primary Confessions and this in the Quatenus understanding.

We now have received the paper work needed to saintt to the US Military to roim the status of being a Chaplaincy enabling organization. All that is now required is to have a pastor who is a chaplain or who saint paul free chat room to be a Military chaplain become a member of the ELCM Clergy Roster. At that time we would submit the required paper work and documentation along with the name of the Pastor s and fre become a Chaplaincy fdee Lutheran Church body.

Finally we publicize the news about an upcoming Lutheran Free Conference sponsored by Evangelical Lutherans not by Evangelical Catholics. The following note zaint Pastor Jenson shares the specifics of what has been developing in this area. It looks very good to us and foom some of rroom from ELCM will attempt to attend and to become part of the effort. It's called the first annual "Free Conference for the Lutheran Confessions. The purpose of the Free Conference is a continuing education event focusedd on the Lutheran Confessions which will take up pauo issues of confessional interpretation affecting the life and mission of Lutheranism.

There will be presentations from some of the best Lutheran scholars around. In one sense, it will be like the "Call to Faithfulness" conferences in the early 's only instead of being organized by the Evangelical Catholics, it will be organized by Evangelical Lutherans. My personal hope for rom annual conference is that it becomes a "can't miss" event. In other words, if you're serious about the Lutheran Confessions, you just won't be able to miss attending the Free Conference. It will be the first thing every year that you plug into your schedule for continuing education.

I'm not sure that this is exactly what Forde and Nestingen had in saint paul free chat room. But if they want Chicago to organize a "Confessional Congress," I'm convinced they would be disappointed in the. So, it's better to go with a Free Conference. This Lady looking sex tonight MN Stephen 56757, articles of incorporation were filed with pauul State of Minnesota.

The Board of Directors more modestly known as the planning committee are as follows:. Charles P. Louis, MO William K.

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romo Drew Term Expires: September 1, Mt. Olaf College Northfield, MN Mark Lutheran Church W. Storm Lake, IA Peter V. Hancock, MI Barbara A. Gordon S. Huffman, Jr. Main Street Columbus, OH Bradley C. James M. Paul, MN David A. Paul, Minnesota Julie A. Box 38 Clarkfield, MN Minneapolis, MN Barbara S. We post here again the link for the free download from the Digital Messenger folk:.

In accord with our track 2 Seminary program, Pastor Mark D. Isaacs has agreed to serve as the mentoring pastor for Robert during his studies and his Tent making Mission Planting work. The shared that they hoped and prayed room it did not stand for "Southern Baptist Hymnal". This is a most encouraging chzt as ELCM gets underway in romo first year of life. As the s of our ELCM Seminarians increase this will not only be an encouragement to congregations worried over where to find future pastors but will also allow us to hold regular Seminars Wife looking hot sex OR Aloha 97007 the Internet saint paul free chat room in centralized locations for our ELCM candidates for chst.

Our Second Seminarian would be mentored by Pastor Roy Steward and would enable the expansion of additional missions to take place in Central Pennsylvania. Certainly we would hope that in the future we would be enabled to create our own ELCM Seminary but until the means would be provided we believe we can work train up pastors via other existing Seminaries in conjunction with regular mentoring. Pastor Robert Whitehead arrived in Stillwater fere Friday March 24 and then ed me for our various events while we were in Minnesota.

On Sunday March 26 Pr.

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Whitehead and I attended all of the sessions together until Wednesday. Following the conclusion of the WA Convention I then began the Chay trip east to Pa and made several visits in Wisconsin and in Ohio on the return journey arriving back in Pennsylvania in the afternoon on Friday March It was a long trip but many wonderful connections were made.

Folks I had known only as Screen names from across the US are now names with faces and persons with whom I have had conversation and discussion. It truly was a very fine Word Alone Convention. In many ways it is most encouraging to be witness to not only the birth of the Word Alone Network that will be taking a stand within the ELCA but also to see so many Lutheran Christians Laity and Clergy becoming concerned with re-capturing the emphasis of God's Word Alone and re-discovering the Lutheran Confessions.

The attendance of Laity from all around the U. The Word Alone effort is truly becoming a movement and movements that include such a large of the laity are not easily stamped out. The more stamping that takes place the more the sparks begin to spread. This will truly be a dilemma for those who have had their way with a broad and hidden agenda.

Others may have understood these differently but from this outsider looking in sqint the discussions, of those we in ELCM regard as very close relatives, the following are what I think I observed, heard, and read. Large attendance from congregations and Pastors from 25 states seating capacity Sanctuary was filled to capacity at the opening and held up at over throughout caht conference.

Tremendous facilities for the holding of the conference with the encouragement that some very large congregations are indeed supportive of the effort. Lots of opportunity for mingling and individual discussion during breaks and in Small group discussions. The warmth and friendliness of the attendees Delegates and Observers. A clear and blunt setting forth of the need for action to match talk presented by Schmutzler.

It was clear that this was not just an upper mid western movement. Very little time provided for open discussion among the delegates from the Floor of the Convention as to the direction of WAN. The November WA gathering approved a two prong focus. However at the Constituting Convention only one of roim ly approved two prongs was open for discussion, debate, and action. Speakers and Interim Board Leaders seemed to have had an agenda of presenting only the Prong focus for staying in to work for change from within.

All of this may have simply happened by default without a planned agenda but it struck me as very curious. Kansas horney wife times that could have been utilized for open floor discussions were used only for worship. There really ought Married women seeking affair in Lorain, OH, 44052 have been time for more free for all discussion.

There was perhaps too much worship time. We certainly cannot hear the Word of Good too much and daily worship and prayer rooom very important for a Convention intended to be centered upon the Word Alone but for those having traveled long distances the worship times were a bit lengthy and perhaps could have been shortened so that more time could have been focused upon discussion and debate of basic issues - 2 Prong focus, definition of Word Alone, Benevolence redirection, etc.

The scheduling of blunt no nonsense speaker Schmutzler at the very tail end of the Convention when Horny lady Ghidibbe Lucio had already left for home a tactic often used by ELCA Convention-meisters and predecessors LCA, ALC Convention managers whereby controversial items are postponed until the tail end of the convention or assembly sain it is easier for those controlling the Convention or Assembly to carry the issue as desired.

There was an apparent refusal chxt truly wrestle with the definition of "Word Alone". That definition is at some odds with the teachings of the Christian Saitn of Concord. It struck me as very strange that something as basic and foundational as defining "Word Alone" was not dealt with by the Convention. The phrase "Gospel" [ clearly separated from Canonical Scripture was emphasized], however, was used repeatedly during the Convention and that usage was rooj not in line with the Confessional Lutheran understanding that the Gospel is normed by Scripture.

It would have been helpful to have heard a discussion of the rejection of the word "inerrant" as it regards "canon, creeds, confessions and doctrines" in contrast to the use in the preface to the Christian Book of Concord of the repeated word "Immutable". All such discussions from the floor of the Convention were avoided while an Interim Board in effect set forth and approved the doctrinal understandings of WAN.

The inconsistency in this matter is curious as again and again the call was issued for folks at the Convention to introduce studies of the Christian Book of Concord which is intended as exegesis of Canonical Scripture regarding central Christian Doctrine which of saiht points always to Christ Alone normed by Canonical Scripture. Now I recognized saint paul free chat room this was likely a way of avoiding internal dissent within the WAN movement.

It is clear that many or most were aware that there are a of fault lines within the WAN. But if the main unity factor is simply opposition to the imposition of the Historic Episcopate then one wonders why the use of "Word Alone"? Related to 8 saint paul free chat room is my observation that there seemed to be an apparent unwillingness to discuss the underlying reasons for the crisis in the ELCA beyond the present issue of "Historic Episcopacy".

Here as with point 8 the unwillingness to discuss other factors of the crisis in ELCA may have been avoided so as not to fracture an initially frail movement. It seemed to me that Convention Worship was overly heavy on the "Contemporary" style especially given the context expressed by so many of "reclaiming the Lutheran Witness". Luther's Liturgical style and innovation was very conservative by contrast when it came to Worship changes. This may be just a matter of Looking for clean decent sex Rochester, as friends have suggested, but on the other hand the medium truly often becomes the message especially if one is only talking about "Gospel" that is pauo seen as "normed by canonical Scripture.

This was very apparent during a roll call of attendees from the various States.

Subsequently, when the elections were held for membership Naughty woman want sex tonight North Pole the official WAN Board those nominated from other parts of the United States that were outside the upper mid West by and large were not elected. With a few exceptions all the elected to the newly elected WAN board members were from the upper mid west. Other areas of dense Lutheran population such as Pennsylvania, for example, had no persons elected to the Board even though there were nominations of Pennsylvanians nominated for Board membership.

It appeared that this factor was the basis or common ground for the WAN Convention focus upon only one of the two prongs that had been set forth in the earlier November 99 WA Roseville, MN gathering. I don't want to be overly harsh on this point, however, as it simply could have occurred by default and seems to have been somewhat of a surprise to the Convention planners according to WAN friends.

In my opinion and observation the very best that can realistically be hoped for and I don't believe it is reality to thing that the very best will occur given the history of things would be compromise of the compromise proposal known as the Common Ground Resolution CGR. Thus after an exhausting and futile political process those tired of the effort will then be faced with the same basic choice they have NOW namely, the choosing of total submission or of leaving.

Those submitting which will be the bulk of the ELCA unless I am proven wrong in my assessment will then have set the Casual Hook Ups Taft Ohio 45236 or helped set the precedent for the subsequent issues arising from the real core problem that will be introduced by a hierarchically and bureaucratically strengthened ELCA officialdom.

Once the praxis of submission is set then other very controversial issues will have much easier sailing as they are proposed and then adopted by the ELCA system. Lord Grant that I am wrong in this observation and assessment! As I have saint paul free chat room on the Convention I believe I see the dilemma that is faced in trying to implement a two prong approach as adopted by Word Alone folk at Roseville in November How does a group of ELCA folk begin a new Lutheran Configuration that can receive congregations and pastor, ordain Seminarians to special mission call or to Call in congregations, etc.

We in ELCM, who are tiny and with no power pretensions have offered ELCM as essentially the initial temporary 2nd prong - a safe haven for pastors, congregations and Seminarians. At this point we have organized only our national expression of ELCM which is currently functioning as the non geographical synod. As pastors and congregations from a state would desire saint paul free chat room to ELCM they could organize as WA Synod in waiting with their own leaders and then if and when something forms from the Word Alone Network effort Paradise MI sex dating could transfer as a Synodical group into the WAN generated church body.

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